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Sunday, May 16, 2010

Jr: "Think I need a new crew chief?" Pops: "You and me both, Junior." (Dover Recap)



Black Sunday May 16th

We started off today with Mr H saying that he would never break up Chad and JJ. But, in my opinion he had many more options for crew chief when he decided to instead put a rookie in charge of the 88 team and Nascar's Most Popular Driver. What the heck was he thinking?

CHASSIS CHOICE: This weekend, McGrew and the No. 88 crew will unload Hendrick Motorsports Chassis No. 88-578 at Dover. Earnhardt last raced this chassis at Bristol (Tenn.) Motor Speedway in March, when he scored a seventh-place finish. This car first saw action at Auto Club Speedway in February, when Earnhardt finished 32nd.

Results: Finished 10 laps down in 30th place. 16th in Chase points dropping 4 places and 43 points out of 12th. Not a good day at the races for Dale Jr.

If I look back at last years blogs, I continue to have the same thoughts. What the heck is wrong with this team, the shop, the crew and most importantly the crew chief? How could Mr H let this go on and on and on and on? It's painful as a fan of Dale Jr's to watch. He deserves so much better than this. He gives everything of himself and doesn't get much in return. (actually today he got nothing in return) Words really can't describe the hopeless, helpless feeling he and his loved ones along with us fans are feeling.

Mr H is on Amp chat this coming Wednesday - it's time for him to answer the tough questions. Seems to me the media won't ask them so we have to ask him WHY?

The media is already trying to paint a picture of nothing being wrong with Jr's car. Yes, you heard that right - "Didn't realize it but there was nothing wrong with Junior's car. They ended up not fixing anything. Sometimes drivers feel things." per Bob Pockrass --- so that's why he was turning the car 90 degrees to the left on the straightaway? And, the car was wrecking loose and the tires felt like basketballs. I can only shake my head and pray someone does something immediately to fix this! My God - wake up everyone at HMS. The fans can see it plain as day!

Mr H was down at Jr's pit box during the race, looked like he was mad, and LM didn't sound so smart ass after that. No comedy hour today I would think. The question is, as I said last week when is enough enough?

hat tip to Jeff Gluck for the comments -

Earnhardt Jr.'s brief return to the top 12 ended unceremoniously, the primary culprit being when the driver pitted under the green flag for a problem he thought was a broken part in the steering.

As it turned out, there was no problem at all. (I don't believe that)

"There's a bunch of marbles on the racetrack down there and I was on the inside," Earnhardt Jr. said. "We got the green and I hit those (marbles) and the car went straight. We'd been dragging the splitter all day in the corner coming off of (Turn) 4, and the car just went straight like it had a flat tire.

"We'd been so loose before that, I figured something must be fucked up and broke on it. That thing drove like it was fucking broke in half."

Was it frustrating for the No. 88 to be so far off at Dover?

"Well, I mean, we've been running like this for two years now," he said.

‘Running like this' meaning at Dover or everywhere?

"Everywhere," he said. "You kind of get used to it."

Now 16th in points (43 markers behind a Chase spot), Earnhardt Jr. was asked where the No. 88 team goes from here. How does it rebound?

"Well..." Earnhardt Jr. said, pausing for a long seven or eight seconds. "There ain't no answer for that. I don't know. What do you think? I'm lost."

As he walked up the stairs out of the garage and toward the motorcoach, his voice took on a discouraged tone.

"I don't know, man," he said. "Oh well. What the fuck am I supposed to do? I know I'm a better race car driver than that. My shit ain't that good. It wasn't good today."

McGrew looked steamed, and gave only two short answers.

In regard to the car's problems, McGrew said, "Nothing was wrong." (Yes - everything was wrong about that car)

And in response to the question of how the No. 88 team rebounds, McGrew said simply, "I have no idea" and walked away. (truer words were never spoken - finally he gets it)



Here is a recap of the scanner for today:

Needs left rear grip - Jr

Loose in -- (we've gained two spots)

Bounces rear - left rear skips out in center and off corner - front takes off like a slot car - really loose in front no grip

After pitting Jr pretty hard contact left rear!!! Hit by JPM CC slow on the warning when Jr pulled out of pit

Crush panel hanging down behind tire

Same handling problems so LM 2 rounds on the track bar - (that's a big)

29th 2 laps down Lap 137

LM talk to me when you can #DaleJr Really really loose spinning out all the way around

splitter takes off on own every corner - every time off turn 4 tries to wreck God awful starts bouncing so bad


feels like under caution steering is wandering around - LM putting rubber LR packer in front two rounds wedge


Lap 168 two laps down P28

Something broke

Pitted to diagnose problem Lap 225 8 laps down 33rd

Straightaway gotta turn 90 degrees to the left (still has steering problems)

Tires feel like basketballs

Felt like marbles for two laps - tires get to bouncing - LM I didn't change anything so I guess they're gonna

Feels like the tires are flat - really loose (THIS has happened before) Splitter on track

No comment to team at end and who would blame him?

41 comments:

  1. I'm still trying to digest this day. What I don't understand is why some races they work to make the cars better and other days they are just shit? Like today. If McGrew doesn't have a clue then he needs to go. Looks like Rick needs a sit down with this Crew Chief. If he can no longer deliver cars that are competitive then either he needs to go or the team needs an overhaul or both. Doesn't matter to me which way they go. Just. Make. It. Better.

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  2. Great blog. I am as disgusted as you are and finally happy to see Jr. express his disgust. He said they've been like this for the past 2 years. Why?

    Remember their 1st year at Hendrick. Dale Jr. and Tony Jr. came out flying. Won the Bud Shootout, ran 2nd in points for a long time. Guess what? The glory boys from HMS, the 24 and 48 could not be shown up by a bunch of DEI guys coming to THEIR house and showing them up.

    All of a sudden, "test" equipment seemed to be going to Junior. Then his CC was taken away and because he obviously was the problem. During all this time the 88 was sharing a car chief and engineer as well. That probably really stoked the 48 and 24 who had their own car chiefs and car engineers.

    Well, Sir Lanceless was not the answer. He was a CC for HMS before and didn't pan out, so why in the hell he was given to Junior is beyond me. Then Rick gives Tony Stewart free reign to take any of his employees to SHR except Knaus or LeTarte. So, who goes? Darian Grubb who was working on the 88.

    As a crew chief, you are TOTALLY RESPONSIBLE for the team that is working on your cars! Why after 2 years of dysfunctional team members did it take Rick Hendrick until TODAY to get on that 88 pit box!!! Where in the heck has he been????

    As I stated on Twitter, Pops Eury and the 88 Nationwide team unloaded a bad car at Dover. Qualified horrible. Pops took the feedback from Jamie MacMurray and MADE THE CAR BETTER!!! They finished 3rd.

    Lance McGrew and the 88 CUP team unloaded a bad car. Qualified horrible. Lance took the feedback from Dale Junior and......well, finished 10 laps down in 30th. Good job crew chief. You really know your stuff.

    Rick Hendrick need to FIX things on that 88 team. Lance either needs a crash course in team management and how to handle feedback from a driver or he needs to go. Plain and simple.

    Otherwise, the Hendrick Cash Cow that is Dale Jr. will not be profitable any more.

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  3. Good article. I hope today was the straw that broke the camels back & we see some concern & changes from Mr. H. Amp chat should be interesting.

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  4. I say let's do a major overhaul again, and get some new blood-- preferrably Dale Jr fans from Pit Crew U, and Nascar Tech, as well as other places that train auto/race mechanics. People who are TRAINED in this. I know Rick Hendrick likes to promote from within, but now it's time to look outside the box.

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  5. Let's hope we can get a new camel in time to get the 88 into the Chase.

    Can you imagine the media if Junior misses the Chase again?

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  6. Very well said girls -

    The reason why Pops got the 88 NW car to run better and finish 3rd was because he listened to Jamie and made changes accordingly, and what do you know - it works. The 88 CC/Team/Engineers whomever - think Jr is stupid and can't give correct information for THEIR car.


    Plain and simple - he really doesn't fit in there. And,

    Bonnie you hit the nail on the head with the big shots not being able to handle the DEI crew beating the pants off of them the beginning of 2008. So it was 'fixed'!

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  7. I also really think Tony Eury Jr was helped a lot by Grubb who knew the in's and out's of HMS - when he was 'given' to SHR things fell apart.

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  8. I will be back when my blood pressure goes down. You outdid yourself - great blog.

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  9. I really feel bad for Dale Jr he deserves better!! He needs a new crew chief asap RICK HENDRICK wake up and fire Lance Give us Alan G Give old man who should retire Lance

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  10. If anyone thinks the 24 and 48 were going to let Dale Jr swoop in and unseat them, you're nuts. None of this surprises me. Ever wonder why Knaus has that shit eating grin on his face??? Dale Jr was NEVER going to be competetive at HMS.NEVER.

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  11. Have any of you considered that Jr. has served his purpose at HMS? He brought in BIG sponsors that were promptly appropriated to JG & MM's cars, leaving JRM to fend for sponsors for the NW series, not to mention Cup. Mr. H, if I'm right, SHAME ON YOU. You made a lot of promises to your Son Ricky's friend, and, frankly I don't think you've kept any of them. Jr., may God continue to watch over you. Whatever happens, you'll be fine and I'm with you 4EVER.

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  12. I would like to add I never suggested Pops as CC by that title as some think. It's a play on words for today's race and the NW commercial LOL :) I know he doesn't want to CC for Cup and I bet doesn't want to work for HMS, plus he has no experience with COT.

    So, we need suggestions. I know Jimmy Fennig was Ray Evernham's suggestion already last year - but he's in R&D at Roush. My guess is Roush tied him up so no one else could get him.

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  13. GANANA4JR - very well said and yes, we have all thought that for almost two years now. $$$$ Cow

    We have to pray for his safety now as I feel the cars he's given are unsafe to say the least.

    If Mr H doesn't fix it his legacy will be - the one who ruined Dale Jr's career. He was on a roll at DEI until the ideas and workmanship that Dale Sr built began to fall apart. He was given a lot of crappy cars then as well - 2006 2007 then on to HMS 2008 209 2010 it's all been downhill,

    He thought HMS had the best so he chose them, what a surprise and disappointment it must be for him!

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  14. I agree with everything that was said. Dale jr is being used in my opinion for the cash that comes in and its not right. He's at a top notch team and he should be running just as well as the other three. Shame on Mr H for treating Jr this way. And he was supposed to be a friend of Dale sr? Dale sr must rolling in his grave over this.

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  15. I really hope that everyone is wrong about Dale Jr being the HMS cash cow. But honestly, it really is starting to seem like that is the case. I like Rick Hendrick and I really hope he does something about this before I start to not like him. It is really sad to watch Dale Jr sound and look so sad. I feel so bad for him. I think Lance McGrew is the problem. He doesn't have enough experience. He doesn't seem to even listen to Dale. I think a new crew chief is called for. Some one with experience. I don't know who is the ight on but I know Lance is not it. I am a Dale Jr fan forever!! Proud member of JR Nation

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  16. OK. Had to come back and post. I wrote so fast I forgot to mention the sponsor thing. GANANA4JR said it perfectly. Oh, and now that Dupont is leaving the 24, will he take AMP from Junior? Probably. Junior brought his popularity, sponsors and heart to HMS and all he got for it was.................Lance McGrew and terrible equipment.

    I also agree about Chad's grin. Some people have thought that Chad should be Junior's CC. I hope to GOD that never happens. Chad will finish off the downfall of Junior that Rick started.

    I keep wondering what the answer is, but I honestly don't have one other than Junior bringing JRM to CUP. You see how Tony Stewart is having trouble this year. Maybe this is a lesson to Junior to team up with RCR as a "satellite" team.

    I think Richard Childress would be more of a "dad" to Junior than Rick Hendrick could ever be. RCR cars have come around and Dale Jr. and Tony Jr. have the Hendrick knowhow now. May be a win-win for both.

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  17. I think the majority of the problems are his pit crew there pit stops are never fast enough and some of them don't even know how to make the correct changes on the car. Who's to say they made the correct changes to the car today?. I think there was already something broke on that car from the beginning of the weekend on Friday. I think it's starting to be the same as last year someone in that shop or pit crew is messing around with that car. I'm going to wait and see what is said from HMS before I throw anyone else under the bus. I agree that Lance has been a problem as far as communication but Dale Jr did say he wanted his crew chief to be tough. I think it's a no win situation for Lance like it was for Tony Jr. Jeff Gordon has Letarte who hasnt been the greatest crew chief in the past few years either and there still together. I think it will take more then just this race for something to be done with Lance

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  18. Missed the race but knew I could find your blog and get the recap. Sounds like a horrible day for Jr -- another race, same horrible results. Sigh.

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  19. I worry how much more Dale Junior can take. I trusted Mr Hendrick when he said he would take care of him. He sure is doing a great job of destroying Dale's career. Dale brought him the big bucks and sponsors. What did he get in return. Hi security taken from him with Tony Junior. Then he slowly moved his Nationwide sponsors that Dale had to his other cup cars. Next, you just wait Gordon will have AMP and National Guard.
    I understand why he didn't want to go to RCR, but Richard would have kept his word to Dale Junior.
    Again, I worry about him. I hope he does not get down on himself.
    Mr Hendrick your words to Dale Junior aren't worth the paper they are written on. People can say all they want he has the same equipment. Then if he does put your precious JJ or Jeff in one of those dangerous 88 cars and see how well they do.
    Prove it to Dale Junior's fans you really care?
    Won't happen will it?

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  20. Finally have time to leave my comments. Been stewing all day, so it won't be as F-bombed as a Jr rant!

    Junior needs an older and experienced crew chief. He needs one that will carole the pit crew and will not allow any mistakes to be made. Would Chad Knaus put up with Wrong Way Wedge Guy? I doubt it.

    It's not just the pit crew that needs a swift kick in the rear. The guys back at the shop. The car was unloaded was horrible all weekend. How can any team expect to do anything when the car provided to them was so far behind everyone else? When you unload that horrible there is not much you can do to fix it. Something needs to happen at the shop.

    If you get a crew chief that knows how to adjust, set up cars for each race, keep the guys in line, there wouldn't be no rants from Junior. Because if you do the afore mentioned things, the car will be much better and Junior will be happier inside the car.

    I will say it here, because I'm not going to start a fight on Gluck's blog with non Junior fans that will never understand. People telling Junior to "Shut up and drive" need to turn on Junior's radio and listen to him for the whole race and not rely on what Fox feeds them. He doesn't talk on the radio other than to give feed back. Yes he does joke around some, but when he's running bad, you can bet your butt his comments are all about the car. Their opinions are biased and short fed because they are not listening to Junior's audio for an entire race, they only get the rants and the bad audio that Fox wants to play to stir the pot.

    How long is Rick Hendrick going to wait and watch the 88 sink? So far he's waited a year and a half. counting the ending of the 2008 season, last year and now this year. When he's going to step in and say, "that's it. This is what we are going to do." Could be it be coming soon since he was supposively in the 88 stall after Junior's 'mishap' and apparently pissed off? Was this the finaly straw? I sure as hell hope so.

    As for the report that nothing was wrong with the car. Okay, nothing was broke with the car, but there surely as hell something wrong with the car. I was hoping that Junior would just put it out of its misery. A crappy car like the one today had no business being back in rotation. It sucked at Bristol, it sucked at Fontana. We need to have caliber cars.

    Obviously opening up the shop and putting the 5/88 more together isn't working. Why don't they mix them up. Why not move the 24/48 shops around and pair each one of the dominant teams with the lesser teams? Let them all fed off each other.

    Waiting to see what will come of this debacle that was Dover. But as with anything in the 88 team, I think we will be waiting awhile.

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  21. Has anyone noticed that for two straight years Tony Jr or Lance the car gets "adjusted" on a pit stop and magically comes out worse than before?

    Someone is fucking around on this pit crew, I really really hate to say it but we got case in point last week when they turned the bar two rounds the wrong way. This really really needs to stop, because you have a driver with the talent to run top 5 and win races and he gets worse and worse every pitstop. I honestly dont think Lance is a bad Crew Chief, hell I wouldnt mind him staying with the 88 team and have Pops or Alan take the Helm and he Car Chiefs.

    If you get down to it the 88 has performed better than the 5 in majority of the races this season, but the last 3 races have been a disaster for unknown reasons. Jr is pissed off because they were splitting time with Jeff as the class of the field at Texas, nobody was better than those two cars it just happens they didnt get the win they deserved because Denny snuck one out in the late race wreckfest. Suddenly they cant do a thing since. Jr knows he can still win and can win the the COT piece of shit or not and they showed it at Texas.

    I hope that Rick was there and pissed off with the team, because Jr I know for a fucking fact could be winning in any of the other HMS cars and with lesser teams based on what I have seen from the early races this season (bar the past 3 )

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  22. I've noticed and thats what I was trying to say above the problems are bigger then just the crew chief.

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  23. As my 11 year old son said yesterday - "Mom, that is the worst POS car I have ever seen Jr. have to drive. His crew chief is a jerk". And yes, he picked up the POS meaning from a blog on his own!! LOL

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  24. Painful, painful day yesterday. Very disheartening and I just can't imagine how Jr feels. If Rick was truly PO'd at the crew, I hope they get nailed this week and get their act together. He is letting all of this pile up on Jr and the ending is not going to be good. Mr. McGoo needs a major attitude adjustment at the very least. It looks like the entire crew is just mirroring his and the company's attitude toward Jr succeeding - it just doesn't matter. I sincerely hope that there is some sort of shake up in the next couple weeks. It isn't working and someone needs to step up to the plate and handle it. Jr is driving his butt off, he has proven he can do it. Really good comments about the sponsors. Makes me kind of sick to think about it, but I think you are all on the right track with that.

    Thanks for your blog, great job as usual.

    df617

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  25. Lance is going to be on fast talk tonight this info came from AliciaPRNradio on twitter "Fast Talk will air live from The Speedway Club at CMS tonight at 7pm. Kurt Busch, Jeff Burton, Lance McGrew and Sam Bass will be here!"

    I hope to hear something was broken on the car I think Lance's comments yesterday were just out of frustration. And some took his comments the wrong way.

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  26. The audio from fast talk will be posted on goprn.com after broadcast at 8 eastern time.

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  27. I just don't get it - it looked as if gains were being made in the early part of the year and there was actually some decent communication between car and pitbox. How did it all go south so fast? Maybe it wasn't fundamentally solid to begin with.
    The other person who seems to have escaped discussion in all of this is the CAR chief... who is he and why in the world are the cars coming to the track in such bad shape anyway?

    I'm beginning to think Jr is only at HMS to bring in the dollars to float the rest of the operation.

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  28. Another Mary -

    The car chief is David Bryant who was Jimmie Johnson's windshield tear off guy. Nuff said?

    I touched on this subject last year, it seems forever now to me. There have not been many positive blogs since I started about this time last year.

    The team seems to be an in-house train as you go, promote from within, which is the HMS modus operendi aka MO.

    I'm going to write a bit more later.

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  29. Lance has no idea how to set the car up the way Jr. likes it so he can drive it. Mr. H needs to get somebody in there that does--FAST. Regardless of what others may say, we know Jr. knows how to drive a race car, well. I hope something is done soon! I'm getting so tired of this and feel so sorry for Jr.

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  30. This is a link to listen to Lance on Fast talk live at 7 eastern time http://tinyurl.com/2fj7dvh

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  31. This is a link to listen to Lance live on fast talk tonight at 7 eastern time

    http://radiotime.com/WebTuner.aspx?StationId=27581&

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  32. From HMS website:

    Car chief - Team/Job duties: Car chief/mechanic. Simply put, I make sure all the duties are performed like the crew chief wants, and I'm responsible for the mechanics on the car.

    Time at current job: Four years as car chief at Hendrick Motorsports. The last two I've been on the No. 88 team, and before that I was with the No. 25.

    Years at Hendrick: Nine. Prior to joining the No. 88 team, I worked with the No. 25 team and the No. 48 as a mechanic. (I see window cleaner has been replaced by mechanic)

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  33. Can someone please post the link to listen to it live on the pitboard I'm not a member there.

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  34. OK I sent my question to PRN ~ Dear Lance -

    You were put in a tough position as a rookie crew chief. It appears the cars have a problem stemming from either the shop, the crew or you. Which is it, I thought you all had this fixed in off-season? Would you be willing to step aside for a replacement brought in from outside HMS?

    yourvoice@goprn.com

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  35. Good Question & thanks for asking. I wonder if it will be asked & answered but it will be revealing. I am still trying to regain my BP readings since yesterday. I have read all comments & agree. So many have been my own thoughts since 2008. I have been around a long time & when RH told the media in New Hampshire 2008 that Jr. was the problem at the 88 team - I knew that it was all over for Jr. at HMS. But we shall see how this all plays out - I just hope Jr. is still standing when all is said & done.

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  36. Why is the media drinking HMS brand Kool-Aid?

    Spotted on Twitter this morning -

    DNewtonespn - Agree totally. - -RT @ufgator777: @DNewtonespn David, what's your opinion on McGrew as a Crew Chief? I personally think he's damn good.

    BTW - I asked Mr Newton last night on Twitter "why the car was having to be steered 90 degrees to the left to go straight" and they continue to all say nothing was wrong.

    He DM's me that "It's in the article" afraid to be seen posting to a lowly peon asking a question? Problem it's not in the article!! I can't believe loose marbles makes the steering that far OFF - no one else had that problem.

    The same writer said in an article on ESPN - from a Mcgrew quote "I told him I was going to eat lunch with him tomorrow and get him out of the crew chief business," McGrew said jokingly."

    Joking again? And, in a way once again telling Jr to shut up and drive. Let's all reiterate the Pops Jamie scanner discussion in the NW race when the car was handling badly most of the race. Towards the end - Jamie - I think we need to put some air in the right sides" Pops "OK - let's try that" and what do you know it worked and he finished 3rd with a car that would have finished in 20's like the other evil twin 88 does or worse.

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  37. As usual, you tell it like it is. Jeff Gluck is already warning us that he has to read specific questions. No hard questions will be answered tomorrow. Maybe not ever for that matter.

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  38. 2007 HMS Announcement

    Hendrick also said he's not going to force Earnhardt to change his image, even though Earnhardt jokingly said he'd been told his normal attire of blue jeans and t-shirts might have to be altered.

    "It's important to let him be himself.''

    "I've always daydreamed about driving for Rick since I started to drive racecars,'' said Earnhardt, wearing blue jeans and a grey dress shirt. "I guess if I had my choice in a perfect world, he was kind of always in the lead.''

    Because of negotiations with Busch and trying to get Earnhardt Hendrick said " "I haven't slept well in three weeks,'' Hendrick said.

    >>>>>He's sure there will be more sleepless nights if he can't deliver Earnhardt the championship he promised.<<<<<<

    >>>>>>"He made the decision to come with us based on our ability to give him what he needs to reach those goals,'' Hendrick said. "So that's the competitive side of me that adds pressure, because I want to deliver what he's expecting.<<<<<<

    >>>>>"I've been through this before where if Jimmie wins Jeff's fans say I don't give him as good of equipment,'' Hendrick said. "I'm sure in this situation if he's not winning it's my fault. <<<<<

    >>>>>"If he's winning it's because of his talent. If he's not it's because of my not giving him good stuff. That's the way the fans will look at it.'' <<<<

    >>>>> "In a way, I guess they want him taken care of,'' Hendrick said. "And they know me well enough to know that I'm going to take care of him. … What I'm trying to say is NASCAR needs Junior to be successful and they need him to be happy. <<<<<<

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  39. Thank you anonymous we are planning the best possible method of getting to Mr H. We may fail but at least we have tried.

    I still cannot believe that no one in Jr's camp will speak up for him. The media - Newton says nothing wrong with the car and Lance is the 'second coming' greatest crew chief and Jr is only a top 15 driver. :(

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  40. IMO HMS removed any support Jr. might have there when they got rid of Tony Jr. & the guys that he had hired. Now they can do or say whatever they want about Jr. & no one will support him there. It is obvioous to me that Jr. only has his fans & although as you say - it might not accomplish anything - we will continue the fight to the end.

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  41. As I posted above Newton says McGrew is "damn good" and Jr is only a top 15 driver.......

    Well - when he was asked about crew chiefs last year he said this............

    From ESPN chat with David Newton....[note: prior to the announcement that McGrew would be cc next year]

    Q - When do you think Ron Malec will be given a chance to be a Crew Chief in Cup and with who?

    David Newton

    Most of us believe he would be great for Dale Earnhardt Jr., but he's with a special group [48] right now and seems satisfied with the challenge of winning another title. If I'm Mr. Hendrick, though, I give strong consideration to making the move to the 88.

    Q - If you were Rick H, would you leave Lance to avoid too much change? Or would you go with the hard working Malec? I think that if anyone could be as meticulous as Knaus it has to be Ron Malec.


    >>>>>I'd go with Malec and change the entire crew as Tony Gibson suggested.<<<<<

    William (Mooresville) says... Hendrick does measure engines on the dyno and keeps the "best" ones for HMS team but the difference is 1 or 2 hp between the top 10 engines. HMS is about the team and crew .... plus luck.

    David Newton = Can't argue that.

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